Moving Forward to New Forum

[ein55]

I start this new thread (earlier post was in OPH thread, replying to Looster), anyone can share your ideas of how to move forward from here without Dennis in this forum (of course, his knowledge and guiding principles will always be with us). More importantly, action is more important than taking, just do it.

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Welcome back, Zipink. Thanks to Lootster for the action to bring the star contributor back. As agreed by most of us, this sad event is also a chance for reconciliation to unite everyone. Let's forget the past, moving forward from now.

I have a chance to chat with Yew Kin & Alvin last night, it seems like only Dennis (site admin) has the forum ownership and password. As a co-moderator (eg. Alvin), I am not sure what is the limit, they may be able to manage the articles (eg. delete offensive article if needed), but he may not be able to create new user account, depending on the power assigned. If so, Dennis' company (masteryourfinance?) has to request for the forum ownership, it may take some time to approach the forum company for the transfer of ownership.

During this transition period (until new account is created or old account is reactivated), may I suggest Zipink to borrow a forum pass/login (prefer an inactive account), use this new access to read/write an article.

One concern is there will be more posts (including this one) posted not at the right category (including mine as I need to reply under OPH thread), if moderator (Alvin or others) can help to shift the article, it will be useful. Later, I will add one new thread on "Moving forward to future forum", suggest we can post future plans / views / suggestions of our joint forum under one common thread, easier for readers. If possible, the existing threads (eg. pay if forward project; memorial sharing of Dennis), if it is within the power of moderator, suggest to regroup them, so that the forum structure will remain tidy, instead of having a few similar threads at the same time.

Let's keep the ball rolling .... more reading and writing within your capacity. This is the best way we can contribute back.

As for the external activities (eg. seminars, graduates learning group, etc), we will let Dennis' partners make the arrangement, we need to be more patient and help one another during this period. If needed, investor mentors or some senior forumers with specialized investment knowledge, can volunteer or be invited to chair some review sessions. It has been some time since I conducted the last mentor session in Nov 2011. If needed (also subject to my work schedule), I am willing to help to conduct an "annual review" around the same time before end of this year, we can review the changes in the past 1 year and discuss on outlook for 2013.

[alvin]

Thanks ein55 for the initiative. Rightly said, we must continue the spirit that Dennis has left behind. This is the best way to show our gratitude.

I do not have the rights to approve new members and I also cannot regroup the posts. My moderator power is limited to deleting posts. No worries, Yew Kin will definitely find a way to gain access to the administrator.

Meanwhile, continue to share! Talk about stocks, properties, success, doing good... don't let it stop!

[djwongdj]

Finally! I am so very pleased to read that zipink is returning. It has been wonderful lately, to read postings from ein55, looster, shazamnick n jamestai again among others.

This direction for the board/forum is such an awesome development!

[ein55]

Annual Share Investment Conference will come again this Sep:

http://www.phillipcfd.com/edms/archive/ ... estor.html

Sep 1 = English Session (Jim Rogers), Sep 15 = Chinese Session (Prof Chan & Hu Liyang)

There is 13% discount given through shareinvestor link:
http://sicsep152012.eventbrite.com/?dis ... reinvestor

You may go together with your friends, there is a group discount of 20% for min 5 ticket purchase. Lunch is included.

I plan to attend the full day event on Sep 15.

[candy_chia]

Really enjoyed reading your tips to instill investment knowledge to your boys previously. Looking forward to more sharings on your techniques as my 11-years old boy became turned off after monitoring Breadtalk share price for a week.

Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:36 am
My boy is concerned about his citigroup (he is competiting with his sister who has earned a lot from Chip Eng Seng in last 1 week but share results are 12 hours apart for SGX and NYSE), but he has to sleep early last night as today is first day of school. Before sleeping at 9pm, I ask him to make a wish of citigroup's price (was $4.73 last Friday) and he gave me a number of $4.88. I thought it is a kid's joke, did not pay too much attention but I told him that I believe the ending price will be in the range of $4.80 - $4.90 as $4.90 was estimated as next resistance line (see my earlier post on Dec 16). I promised him that I will help to see the price and write on whiteboard, so that he can see it first thing in the morning when wake up at 6am.

I struggle to stay till 3am last night, price was oscillating around $4.84 after opening high, I was not excited at all as usually Citigroup will open high (follows Dow's trend which follow's Asia's trend yesterday) and ends lower later (Dow actually drops later of day). When I was too tired and about to sleep at 3am, ready to write the number on whiteboard, it was $4.88 (real time price)! I was very surprised, thought my son has special power to predict the price. When I compare with Chip Eng Seng's price, then I understand as the earning is the same: 55 points, my son just wants to match the same profit as her sister. If I normized the price to points:

Chip Eng Seng: 455 - 400 = 55 points
Citigroup: 488 - 433 = 55 points

So, it was a draw for these 2 stocks. My son was very excited when he wakes up and saw the number (I was still sleeping, my wife told me later) but when I check again, the price of citigroup ends at $4.90.

This time, I got excited myself as I knew $4.90 is a critical no, it ends at this resistance point. If $4.90 is broken (very likely tonight if Dow follows Asia which hopes will continue to grow today) up, the next resistance will be $5.23 (before that, there is a minor resistance of $5.00).

Postby ein55 » Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:16 am

Even my 2 children (6 & 8 yo) are interested to invest after seeing my watching at share$ daily. They have $500 each in their saving. Original plan was to purchase Gallant for them 2 days ago when it was 43 cents ($430 investment for them) but next day becomes 48 cents, deciding not to chase Gallant, as each stock will take turn to rise (may still purchase when it becomes more stable).

The X'mas gift for my children is a deal that if the stock loses money, they can keep the original $ (I pay for the losses), but if price goes up, they can keep the gain. It is a sure win game for them....

I don't like to purchase stock while it is heated (Gallant now), so I have decided to let my 2 children to choose from my 2 best performance stocks so far (bought in last 2 months) which I have purchased (give them a virtual portion worths less than $500): Chip Eng Seng and Citigroup, each of them choose one, they can compete & monitor from time to time, see which one performs better. This has attracted at least my boy's interest (younger girl just follows) as he likes to see his saving to grow, asking me to turn on computer every night to check the price.

I used to reward them points (1-10) when their behavior are good, then the points can be converted into money (1 point = $1) later.

Now I hope to show them how the investment can help them to grow their saving. My boy asks me why not I invest more, I told him that there is always risk involved, can't be too greedy.

I hope to instill the concept of investment to my young children but at the same time needs to balance with mindset of "get rich quick" as if they really think it is so easy to make money, they may not study or work so hard in future.

[ein55]

Hi Candy,

I am glad you still remember this old story. Here are the updates:

Elder P4 boy - manage to sell his "stocks" back to me (for those stocks at loss, I promised to buy back at last purchase price), accumulating points in his opportunity fund. He has trader mind.
Younger P2 girl - Still keep CES, selling other stocks at last purchase price in last Euro crisis.

At one time, I reported the stock prices daily on white board and during the correction, price drops with time, then I changed to weekly update and finally I erased totally (buy back from them as they are asking for the prices), as this has somehow affected their emotion and attn (shd focus more on studies). They have not touched stocks for over 1 year but they got the concept, including dividend of CES, I still give as bonus points to them during CD (not like us after XD).

I am "glad" they learn about stock market during unstable market over the past few years, understanding it is a high risk market. If they joined in 2007 during bull market, perhaps they will learned that it is so easy to make quick money from stock market, eventually they may make a big loss when they invest by themselves when growing up.

Anyway, I am using point system to simulate cash. They do have real saving account with POSB but I prefer them to have virtual cash at the moment (both have over 1500 points now, including Ang Pao during CNY). I still reward them with points for good performance in school or positive behavior, etc. 1 point = S$1 or RM1 when they plan to use the points in their account. My boy likes to save points or money, seldom use them, while my girl is smarter in controlling the money, knowing when to use them if needed.

We control their pocket money to school, avg $1 each day. When going to NTUC, they learn how to compare the price or wait for promotion to buy more things in bulk (similar concept as buying share, buy low at large quanitity), as long as can consume by the expiry date. I also try to teach them (esp the boy) to learn to use the points, eg. buying birthday cake for his sister using his own points ($25 = 25 points) but he also expects something in return from his sister during his birthday.

Personally, I think we can take it more slowly to introduce stock market to children until they are more mature (secondary school?). It is ok to buy virtual stock, eg breadtalk, but there is no need to monitor daily, perhaps weekly or monthly is good enough, so that their emotion will not be affected (esp if losing $).

My children also know about Dennis, elder one has attended his seminar, but he also has a hard time to sit for 1 day.

When we travel to another country (eg. Malaysia), elder one who is stronger in math will learn to convert the currency, eg. comparing the price of ice cream. I guess this is lesson 1 for forex.

I don't think I have special techniques to teach them. Suggest to use daily activities to find opportunities to teach them about finance.

Really enjoyed reading your tips to instill investment knowledge to your boys previously. Looking forward to more sharings on your techniques as my 11-years old boy became turned off after monitoring Breadtalk share price for a week.

Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:36 am
My boy is concerned about his citigroup (he is competiting with his sister who has earned a lot from Chip Eng Seng in last 1 week but share results are 12 hours apart for SGX and NYSE), but he has to sleep early last night as today is first day of school. Before sleeping at 9pm, I ask him to make a wish of citigroup's price (was $4.73 last Friday) and he gave me a number of $4.88. I thought it is a kid's joke, did not pay too much attention but I told him that I believe the ending price will be in the range of $4.80 - $4.90 as $4.90 was estimated as next resistance line (see my earlier post on Dec 16). I promised him that I will help to see the price and write on whiteboard, so that he can see it first thing in the morning when wake up at 6am.

I struggle to stay till 3am last night, price was oscillating around $4.84 after opening high, I was not excited at all as usually Citigroup will open high (follows Dow's trend which follow's Asia's trend yesterday) and ends lower later (Dow actually drops later of day). When I was too tired and about to sleep at 3am, ready to write the number on whiteboard, it was $4.88 (real time price)! I was very surprised, thought my son has special power to predict the price. When I compare with Chip Eng Seng's price, then I understand as the earning is the same: 55 points, my son just wants to match the same profit as her sister. If I normized the price to points:

Chip Eng Seng: 455 - 400 = 55 points
Citigroup: 488 - 433 = 55 points

So, it was a draw for these 2 stocks. My son was very excited when he wakes up and saw the number (I was still sleeping, my wife told me later) but when I check again, the price of citigroup ends at $4.90.

This time, I got excited myself as I knew $4.90 is a critical no, it ends at this resistance point. If $4.90 is broken (very likely tonight if Dow follows Asia which hopes will continue to grow today) up, the next resistance will be $5.23 (before that, there is a minor resistance of $5.00).

Postby ein55 » Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:16 am

Even my 2 children (6 & 8 yo) are interested to invest after seeing my watching at share$ daily. They have $500 each in their saving. Original plan was to purchase Gallant for them 2 days ago when it was 43 cents ($430 investment for them) but next day becomes 48 cents, deciding not to chase Gallant, as each stock will take turn to rise (may still purchase when it becomes more stable).

The X'mas gift for my children is a deal that if the stock loses money, they can keep the original $ (I pay for the losses), but if price goes up, they can keep the gain. It is a sure win game for them....

I don't like to purchase stock while it is heated (Gallant now), so I have decided to let my 2 children to choose from my 2 best performance stocks so far (bought in last 2 months) which I have purchased (give them a virtual portion worths less than $500): Chip Eng Seng and Citigroup, each of them choose one, they can compete & monitor from time to time, see which one performs better. This has attracted at least my boy's interest (younger girl just follows) as he likes to see his saving to grow, asking me to turn on computer every night to check the price.

I used to reward them points (1-10) when their behavior are good, then the points can be converted into money (1 point = $1) later.

Now I hope to show them how the investment can help them to grow their saving. My boy asks me why not I invest more, I told him that there is always risk involved, can't be too greedy.

I hope to instill the concept of investment to my young children but at the same time needs to balance with mindset of "get rich quick" as if they really think it is so easy to make money, they may not study or work so hard in future.

[candy_chia]

Hi ein55,

Thank you for speedy update on your method of coaching your kids in shares investment. Believe that imparting the appropriate investment knowledge to children from primary school level onwards will prevent them from falling prey to the "get rich scam".

My cousin who is a U-grad, nearly lost $5k to an inheritance scam that contacted her via email that she is entitled to claim a enormous inheritance from a millionaire (without will or any relatives)who has died overseas, if she just transferred $5k as administration and legal fees to a specified account. Greed is really the root of all evils.

Hi Candy,

I am glad you still remember this old story. Here are the updates:

Elder P4 boy - manage to sell his "stocks" back to me (for those stocks at loss, I promised to buy back at last purchase price), accumulating points in his opportunity fund. He has trader mind.
Younger P2 girl - Still keep CES, selling other stocks at last purchase price in last Euro crisis.

At one time, I reported the stock prices daily on white board and during the correction, price drops with time, then I changed to weekly update and finally I erased totally (buy back from them as they are asking for the prices), as this has somehow affected their emotion and attn (shd focus more on studies). They have not touched stocks for over 1 year but they got the concept, including dividend of CES, I still give as bonus points to them during CD (not like us after XD).

I am "glad" they learn about stock market during unstable market over the past few years, understanding it is a high risk market. If they joined in 2007 during bull market, perhaps they will learned that it is so easy to make quick money from stock market, eventually they may make a big loss when they invest by themselves when growing up.

Anyway, I am using point system to simulate cash. They do have real saving account with POSB but I prefer them to have virtual cash at the moment (both have over 1500 points now, including Ang Pao during CNY). I still reward them with points for good performance in school or positive behavior, etc. 1 point = S$1 or RM1 when they plan to use the points in their account. My boy likes to save points or money, seldom use them, while my girl is smarter in controlling the money, knowing when to use them if needed.

We control their pocket money to school, avg $1 each day. When going to NTUC, they learn how to compare the price or wait for promotion to buy more things in bulk (similar concept as buying share, buy low at large quanitity), as long as can consume by the expiry date. I also try to teach them (esp the boy) to learn to use the points, eg. buying birthday cake for his sister using his own points ($25 = 25 points) but he also expects something in return from his sister during his birthday.

Personally, I think we can take it more slowly to introduce stock market to children until they are more mature (secondary school?). It is ok to buy virtual stock, eg breadtalk, but there is no need to monitor daily, perhaps weekly or monthly is good enough, so that their emotion will not be affected (esp if losing $).

My children also know about Dennis, elder one has attended his seminar, but he also has a hard time to sit for 1 day.

When we travel to another country (eg. Malaysia), elder one who is stronger in math will learn to convert the currency, eg. comparing the price of ice cream. I guess this is lesson 1 for forex.

I don't think I have special techniques to teach them. Suggest to use daily activities to find opportunities to teach them about finance.

[seeliaosaw]

Hi,

some one has to take ownership of this forum, else it will be difficult to move forward.
it will be very challenging for all of us. i presume.

as for stocks, i just didn't know where to start putting in the money as the market is so unstable.

i hope there are some topic for novices. i can see that you are all experts.

no matter what there must be something to start the ball rolling!

Regards
Sam

[candy_chia]

As mentioned by ein55, "2010-2012 is a unique phase, not showing clear long term up or down trend, confusing many investors."

I am not expert, but in my opinion, to play safe, maybe you can wait till crash to scoop up any fundamentally strong counters to avoid "losing money" in the market.

We need to "take personal responsibility for the choices we make....if along the way we change our mind, we make a choice again....the power is in our hands", quoted dragonhart2.

Dennis previously advocated, "one can simply CLOSE BOTH EYES to buy any company which has ok fundamentals...buying blue chip or STI ETF is one simple way"

the fact is after a stock market Crash, one can simply close both eyes to buy any company which has ok fundamentals...buying blue chip or STI ETF is one simple way, if one is not too familiar with how to choose stocks using FA.

But I would probably wait for the STI price (may not need any MA) to go above 200 day MA before going in to buy, to avoid catching falling knife...ie. buy cheap but it get cheaper.

http://www.masteryourfinance.com/forum/ ... 017#p24017

Tank Theory
===========

After waking up today, I was thinking of current market and economy. Why it is a flat market? In the past few cycles, it is either clear uptrend (eg. 1999-2000, 2003-2007, 2009-2010) or clear downtrend (eg. 2008-2009), therefore it is relatively easier to "ride the trend" (either long or short), even if not at the wave front (be the first few who catch the peak or valley), but the wave is long enough to sustain for several years to make a profit.

2010-2012 is a unique phase, not showing clear long term up or down trend, confusing many investors.

In my opinion, this scenario is mainly because

=> Euro crisis (2010-2012 or may be longer) is a man-made crisis, as well as a political show which can be manipulated by politicians.

These "leaders" only help out when the market is near the breaking point of collapse, they won't let the market fall (see so many examples in the past few years for PIIGS countries).

However, when the market recovers, it cannot grow too fast because lack of stimulus and confidence.

Big countries like US and China are not willing to introduce QE3 or similar monetary easing plan too fast because it will use up their bullets needed during true crisis (see how QE1 of US in 2009 and China version of QE in late 2008, help to save the "most severe financial crisis" since 1929, recover in 6 months after the Lehman Bro incident).

If it is a true crisis, how can it recover in 6 months? It is just change in confidence level.

[candy_chia]

As mentioned by ein55, "2010-2012 is an unique phase, not showing clear long term up or down trend, confusing many investors."

I am not expert, but in my opinion, to play safe, maybe you can wait till crash to scoop up any fundamentally strong counters to avoid "losing money" in the market.

We need to "take personal responsibility for the choices we make....if along the way we change our mind, we make a choice again....the power is in our hands", quoted dragonhart2.

Dennis previously advocated, "one can simply CLOSE BOTH EYES to buy any company which has ok fundamentals...buying blue chip or STI ETF is one simple way"

the fact is after a stock market Crash, one can simply close both eyes to buy any company which has ok fundamentals...buying blue chip or STI ETF is one simple way, if one is not too familiar with how to choose stocks using FA.

But I would probably wait for the STI price (may not need any MA) to go above 200 day MA before going in to buy, to avoid catching falling knife...ie. buy cheap but it get cheaper.

http://www.masteryourfinance.com/forum/ ... 017#p24017

Tank Theory
===========

After waking up today, I was thinking of current market and economy. Why it is a flat market? In the past few cycles, it is either clear uptrend (eg. 1999-2000, 2003-2007, 2009-2010) or clear downtrend (eg. 2008-2009), therefore it is relatively easier to "ride the trend" (either long or short), even if not at the wave front (be the first few who catch the peak or valley), but the wave is long enough to sustain for several years to make a profit.

2010-2012 is a unique phase, not showing clear long term up or down trend, confusing many investors.

In my opinion, this scenario is mainly because

=> Euro crisis (2010-2012 or may be longer) is a man-made crisis, as well as a political show which can be manipulated by politicians.

These "leaders" only help out when the market is near the breaking point of collapse, they won't let the market fall (see so many examples in the past few years for PIIGS countries).

However, when the market recovers, it cannot grow too fast because lack of stimulus and confidence.

Big countries like US and China are not willing to introduce QE3 or similar monetary easing plan too fast because it will use up their bullets needed during true crisis (see how QE1 of US in 2009 and China version of QE in late 2008, help to save the "most severe financial crisis" since 1929, recover in 6 months after the Lehman Bro incident).

If it is a true crisis, how can it recover in 6 months? It is just change in confidence level.

I believe that Dennis has only adopt another form of being with us. I recalled in one of his article in MyPaper he mentioned abt independent thinking when it comes to investing. His absence in physical form is his best teaching for all of us to achieved independent thinking and this is what is happening now where we all come together to share.

[dragonhart2]

hi,

Dennis do not advocate giving tips.....he share with us how he select stocks, when he decides to enter, when he decides to exit whether profit or loss....pls read and re-read the notes for '"Secrets to making money in stocks"....now u need to look for fish yourself....then i would encourage u to start a new thread to share what fish u are looking at, what bait and hook size u want to use...etc..etc....Then we will comment....This is how Dennis wants it done...

i think u can start by reading the old threads under "discussing specific stocks" and do some "dry" swimming. now, seems like a lot of sharks in the water...better wait for the sharks to finish eating and go get wet...

cheers,
jason.

Hi,

some one has to take ownership of this forum, else it will be difficult to move forward.
it will be very challenging for all of us. i presume.

as for stocks, i just didn't know where to start putting in the money as the market is so unstable.

i hope there are some topic for novices. i can see that you are all experts.

no matter what there must be something to start the ball rolling!

Regards
Sam

[ein55]

Thanks for your encouragement, Lop. Your comments have always been impartial.

Let's forget the past ... we are looking forward to a new forum:

- a platform for investment knowledge sharing with joy
- welcome alternative views with open mind and mutual respect
- encourage diversified schools of thought without vested commercial interest
- promote friendship and networking, life long partnership in journey of financial freedom

Dennis and partners have helped in establishing strong fundamentals of investment for many new graduates through various seminars, strengthening over this forum. At certain point of time, these graduates will grow with independent thinking, learning more diversified investment knowledge from other educators. Some of them may already have strong background and expertise in certain investment options. An open platform with mutual respect will promote constructive discussions which will benefit most of the forumers in the long run.

A warm welcome home to ein55 and James Tai. And hope that Alex Yeo (Zipink) can get his forum account reinstated soon.

You all were away from this forum for some months due to disagreement with Dennis. Glad to see all of you back to this forum to share your investment knowledge. Hope that this forum can continue to fulfil the wish of Dennis to spread financial literacy. All should be encouraged to actively participate in this forum. Voice your views but be tolerance to different views, agree to disagree!

[TieGe]

Hi Friends,
I was the one that break the news about Dennis. I can understand why many people sms and calling me to confirm if it is real. It is hard to accept or believe.
Now is the time to move on with action. With so many postings saying and wanting to continue, please allow me to take the lead.

Perhaps we could help to list all the mentors here that as follows with their expertise.

Tie Ge (Property and Wealth creation excluding stock)
.... (please add on this list)

Let give say a week for all to add their names here.
The mentors will meet - any others with ideas will be welcomed to join in too with names below:
Please add your name below:

1.

I like to suggest we meet mid Aug 2012, Depending on the number of people I will annouce the place (anyone have a place pls contribute too)
.
Does anyone know anyone have access to this forum to create a new folder and put this posting there so that everyone can read"

We need to move on and I am afriad this forum will end somehow since no one is maintaining it or renewing it.

Tie Ge
Investing Mentor

[candy_chia]

After spoken to a few seminar graduates, noticed that some still have misconceptions on writing will.
Wonder whether Wealth Direction can explore the possibility of inviting the financial planner that’s recommended by Dennis, to conduct a seminar to explain the benefits of writing a will. Anyone who is keen can sign up with them since they offer quite reasonable rate of $250 per head & discount for a couple.

This saves the hassle of searching for qualified financial planner & avoid footing exorbitant fee mentioned by a graduate in the forum.

[djwongdj]

Thank you candy_chia. Your suggestion is excellent and I would be keen to attend such a seminar about writing a will whenever if can be arranged.