Hi,
Has any of you manage to get your money back from Mohan ?
James Tai
wine investment
Moderators: alvin, learner, Dennis Ng
Hi,
I get to know from Serene that Assetton no longer has office in Boat Quay, anybody know anything about this ? Has any of you able to get sell your wine through Assetton. Did you hear anything back from Mohan ?
I think this whole wine investment is really a very bad ideas. No matter is Australia or French fine wine. Especially with the falling Euro and is so hard to get rid of them. Also all those wine company in Singapore are very unreliable.
James Tai
I get to know from Serene that Assetton no longer has office in Boat Quay, anybody know anything about this ? Has any of you able to get sell your wine through Assetton. Did you hear anything back from Mohan ?
I think this whole wine investment is really a very bad ideas. No matter is Australia or French fine wine. Especially with the falling Euro and is so hard to get rid of them. Also all those wine company in Singapore are very unreliable.
James Tai
Re: wine investment
Hi,
We are trying to find Mohan Nainan the CEO of Assetton PTE LTD. As we wanted to know what happen to our wine and we are unable to get hold of him. If anybody know where we can find him please let us know. Below is the photo of him which we found in one of the web site. He is the first person from your right.
http://www.aas.org.sg/aas-oroton-christ ... ing-event/
James Tai
We are trying to find Mohan Nainan the CEO of Assetton PTE LTD. As we wanted to know what happen to our wine and we are unable to get hold of him. If anybody know where we can find him please let us know. Below is the photo of him which we found in one of the web site. He is the first person from your right.
http://www.aas.org.sg/aas-oroton-christ ... ing-event/
James Tai
Re: wine investment
Hi,
One of us manage to get hold of Mohan and speak to him over the phone, to me all that he say is more lies. So warn all your friend about this person.
To cut a long story short - basically the company is insolvent. There is no money or wine left in the business. There is also no office.
Here is what he told me:
- In most cases, the wine was actually bought.
- The margins were thin.
- His business expenses were too high.
- He got sick (diabetes) and depressed.
- He sold the customer's wines in order to pay for business expenses.
- He never used it for his own pleasure. As an example, he said he takes a bus to work.
- There are only a few fraudulent cases where the letter from Grand Cru Storage was faked.
- He is fully cooperating with the authorities by giving all the paperwork etc.
- He is awaiting to be charged. He doesn't know how much time he has to serve in jail.
- He has lost most of his friends (many from church) who invested in wine through him.
- He says it was never his initial intention to cheat. It is basically a failed business. If not, he would have run away by now.
- He did admit though that that the police have taken his passport.
- He wanted to commit suicide but didn't because he is Christian.
- He has cried enough. He says he has woken up. Now all he wants to do the right thing - to go to jail and he says if he has to work the rest of his life to pay his customers back bit by bit, he would, at least for the principal sum.
- He will be sending an email to everyone to tell them about the failed business. In some cases, he will be calling them like James and Dennis.
James Tai
One of us manage to get hold of Mohan and speak to him over the phone, to me all that he say is more lies. So warn all your friend about this person.
To cut a long story short - basically the company is insolvent. There is no money or wine left in the business. There is also no office.
Here is what he told me:
- In most cases, the wine was actually bought.
- The margins were thin.
- His business expenses were too high.
- He got sick (diabetes) and depressed.
- He sold the customer's wines in order to pay for business expenses.
- He never used it for his own pleasure. As an example, he said he takes a bus to work.
- There are only a few fraudulent cases where the letter from Grand Cru Storage was faked.
- He is fully cooperating with the authorities by giving all the paperwork etc.
- He is awaiting to be charged. He doesn't know how much time he has to serve in jail.
- He has lost most of his friends (many from church) who invested in wine through him.
- He says it was never his initial intention to cheat. It is basically a failed business. If not, he would have run away by now.
- He did admit though that that the police have taken his passport.
- He wanted to commit suicide but didn't because he is Christian.
- He has cried enough. He says he has woken up. Now all he wants to do the right thing - to go to jail and he says if he has to work the rest of his life to pay his customers back bit by bit, he would, at least for the principal sum.
- He will be sending an email to everyone to tell them about the failed business. In some cases, he will be calling them like James and Dennis.
James Tai
Re: wine investment
Business Times - 10 Mar 2012
Investing in wines: caveat emptor
It's best to deal with regulated entities and to be clear about exit procedures
By GENEVIEVE CUA
PERSONAL FINANCE EDITOR
INVESTING in wine would seem to be an attractive proposition: an alternative investment that supposedly zigs when the market zags. What's more, price appreciation of the finest French wines has been stratospheric, thanks to voracious buying by the Chinese.
But many investors here who have invested anywhere between tens of thousands of dollars to well over $100,000 in wine have found themselves in a pickle. Notably, there have been three failures of so-called wine investment firms - Premium Liquid Assets, Universal Assets Group and Assetton Wine Investments - with police investigations reportedly underway on a couple of them.
Over the last 12 months, grumblings have also intensified in the blogosphere over Australian Wine Index (AWI), a firm set up in 2003 to advise and help clients invest in Australian wines, dubbed 'New World' wines. AWI procures wine on clients' behalf. The wines are stored locally in clients' names and the firm is supposed to help clients 'exit' or sell the portfolios, hopefully at an attractive rate of return.
But clients complain of hard-sell tactics by AWI brokers and of the inability to sell their wines. Clients are apparently told by some brokers that a 'proper' wine portfolio must have at least three lines. Clients are then reportedly pressured to buy more at the risk of not being able to exit at all.
Along with alternative investments such as offshore land banking - where clients have come to grief - wine investment is a murky, unregulated area.
This means that while you take advice from a broker who propositions you with so-called investment-grade wine that supposedly has appreciation potential, such brokers are not licensed and do not have to comply with any disclosure requirements. This is unlike regulated financial investments such as unit trusts, where advisers are subject to strict licensing and education requirements, and all marketing materials must comply with strict rules, ranging from restrictions on performance forecasts to the size of any fine-print details.
Says Wine Exchange Asia's Lou Ghirardello: 'We've seen some spectacular failures such as Premium Liquid Assets . . . There is almost a blind trust that the government or regulator will protect local investors here . . . Unfortunately, it's predatory behaviour on the part of brokers. They have the knowledge, they know the market - and they prey on the gullible.' Wine Exchange Asia conducts Internet auctions and sales of fine wine, and also offers a managed cellar service.
Mr Ghirardello adds: 'What's disturbing is that when you make a phone call with a view that you expect to sell the wine on the basis of some huge investment value, there is - if not a legal responsibility - then a moral responsibility for the seller to inform the buyer what the true market is for the wine. That's where I believe there is a fundamental breakdown. People are buying wine based on pricing which is either not easy to discover or totally subjective insofar as they may be paying retail price for the wine.'
AWI managing director Alvin Lim concedes that the exit strategy hadn't been thought through in the past. 'We are trying to help clients exit their wines.' Last year, the firm partnered an auction house in China and two auctions were held. He says the firm has helped clients to sell $6-8 million worth of wines at auctions.
But the China auctions are halted for now. Response to the second auction was poor, and Chinese buyers who have the option of buying in Hong Kong baulked at duties of 48 per cent should they want to consume the wine. Most China buyers, he says, buy for consumption.
While he is negotiating with AWI's China auction partner for better terms and with other Hong Kong auction houses such as Christie's, he is also planning to set up a 'New World' wine exchange platform to provide another avenue for clients to sell their holdings. The platform, which is expected to launch in May, is likely to be open to clients who have invested for at least 3-5 years. It will be open to buyers globally.
Based on ACRA filings, AWI reported revenues of $10.7 million in 2010 and a pretax loss of $851,000. It has total assets of $4.3 million and total liabilities of $5.08 million. Its paid-up capital is $130. This writer asked Mr Lim to explain the assets and liabilities as the company appeared to be technically insolvent.
He said: 'Australian Wine Index is a fully audited business which operates legally and is above board. As a privately owned company, we do not comment on internal matters like our paid-up capital or our balance sheet.' However, the financial strength of the company is arguably an important issue for investors to ascertain.
Mr Lim, who first joined AWI as a broker in 2005, became a director in 2010. 'I made it my goal to help clients trade their wine successfully with a reasonable profit.'
On hard-sell tactics, he says turnover among brokers has been high. 'Trading wine is done by our team of traders, not the brokers, and there is no restriction which says a client must have more than one wine or a certain specific minimum quantity invested with us. Neither is it in our stated terms and conditions. However, certain collectors do prefer to buy collections of wines rather than individual vintages - hence, we try to sell clients wine for them both individually and as collectors.
'Having said this, based on the investor feedback you've brought to us, we will review the practices and sales techniques of all brokers and traders working at AWI to ensure they comply with company policy on this.'
Exiting or selling wine is a costly exercise as well. Investors have to pay AWI a brokerage of about 5 per cent and the auction house may take a commission of about 12 per cent. There are also moving and storage costs.
The rub, however, is the purchase price: are investors buying at retail or wholesale prices? In answer to this, Mr Lim points to the sale of Hewitson 2009 Private Cellar Barossa Valley Shiraz en primeur at S$158 per magnum (1.5 litre) bottle, including refrigerated shipping, three years' storage and insurance. The same Private Cellar 2009 is quoted by Hewitson Cellar Door at A$70 (S$93) per 750ml bottle, he says.
This appears to be an Australian retail price. If exported to Singapore, it must be discounted by a 10 per cent Australian GST and 29 per cent wine equalisation tax.
But based on a search on http://www.wine-searcher.com, the price of the 2009 vintage is reflected as at about S$39 a bottle by a merchant in Finland. The price includes sales tax.
Clients who want to find alternative ways to sell through merchants here are also caught between a rock and a hard place. This is because while some wines are reportedly of good quality, the rush to exit causes a surge in supply which then predictably dampens prices.
Meanwhile, on the question of possible regulation of alternative investments such as wine, the Monetary Authority of Singapore (MAS) says it 'strongly encourages' consumers to deal only with regulated entities. 'If consumers choose to deal with persons who are not regulated by MAS, they forgo the protection afforded under laws administered by MAS. We have also provided resources to enable consumers to conduct some checks on parties they intend to deal with.'
These resources include a register of representatives and a consumer alert on the dangers of dealing with unregulated persons which can be accessed at http://www.moneysense.gov.sg.
Investing in wines: caveat emptor
It's best to deal with regulated entities and to be clear about exit procedures
By GENEVIEVE CUA
PERSONAL FINANCE EDITOR
INVESTING in wine would seem to be an attractive proposition: an alternative investment that supposedly zigs when the market zags. What's more, price appreciation of the finest French wines has been stratospheric, thanks to voracious buying by the Chinese.
But many investors here who have invested anywhere between tens of thousands of dollars to well over $100,000 in wine have found themselves in a pickle. Notably, there have been three failures of so-called wine investment firms - Premium Liquid Assets, Universal Assets Group and Assetton Wine Investments - with police investigations reportedly underway on a couple of them.
Over the last 12 months, grumblings have also intensified in the blogosphere over Australian Wine Index (AWI), a firm set up in 2003 to advise and help clients invest in Australian wines, dubbed 'New World' wines. AWI procures wine on clients' behalf. The wines are stored locally in clients' names and the firm is supposed to help clients 'exit' or sell the portfolios, hopefully at an attractive rate of return.
But clients complain of hard-sell tactics by AWI brokers and of the inability to sell their wines. Clients are apparently told by some brokers that a 'proper' wine portfolio must have at least three lines. Clients are then reportedly pressured to buy more at the risk of not being able to exit at all.
Along with alternative investments such as offshore land banking - where clients have come to grief - wine investment is a murky, unregulated area.
This means that while you take advice from a broker who propositions you with so-called investment-grade wine that supposedly has appreciation potential, such brokers are not licensed and do not have to comply with any disclosure requirements. This is unlike regulated financial investments such as unit trusts, where advisers are subject to strict licensing and education requirements, and all marketing materials must comply with strict rules, ranging from restrictions on performance forecasts to the size of any fine-print details.
Says Wine Exchange Asia's Lou Ghirardello: 'We've seen some spectacular failures such as Premium Liquid Assets . . . There is almost a blind trust that the government or regulator will protect local investors here . . . Unfortunately, it's predatory behaviour on the part of brokers. They have the knowledge, they know the market - and they prey on the gullible.' Wine Exchange Asia conducts Internet auctions and sales of fine wine, and also offers a managed cellar service.
Mr Ghirardello adds: 'What's disturbing is that when you make a phone call with a view that you expect to sell the wine on the basis of some huge investment value, there is - if not a legal responsibility - then a moral responsibility for the seller to inform the buyer what the true market is for the wine. That's where I believe there is a fundamental breakdown. People are buying wine based on pricing which is either not easy to discover or totally subjective insofar as they may be paying retail price for the wine.'
AWI managing director Alvin Lim concedes that the exit strategy hadn't been thought through in the past. 'We are trying to help clients exit their wines.' Last year, the firm partnered an auction house in China and two auctions were held. He says the firm has helped clients to sell $6-8 million worth of wines at auctions.
But the China auctions are halted for now. Response to the second auction was poor, and Chinese buyers who have the option of buying in Hong Kong baulked at duties of 48 per cent should they want to consume the wine. Most China buyers, he says, buy for consumption.
While he is negotiating with AWI's China auction partner for better terms and with other Hong Kong auction houses such as Christie's, he is also planning to set up a 'New World' wine exchange platform to provide another avenue for clients to sell their holdings. The platform, which is expected to launch in May, is likely to be open to clients who have invested for at least 3-5 years. It will be open to buyers globally.
Based on ACRA filings, AWI reported revenues of $10.7 million in 2010 and a pretax loss of $851,000. It has total assets of $4.3 million and total liabilities of $5.08 million. Its paid-up capital is $130. This writer asked Mr Lim to explain the assets and liabilities as the company appeared to be technically insolvent.
He said: 'Australian Wine Index is a fully audited business which operates legally and is above board. As a privately owned company, we do not comment on internal matters like our paid-up capital or our balance sheet.' However, the financial strength of the company is arguably an important issue for investors to ascertain.
Mr Lim, who first joined AWI as a broker in 2005, became a director in 2010. 'I made it my goal to help clients trade their wine successfully with a reasonable profit.'
On hard-sell tactics, he says turnover among brokers has been high. 'Trading wine is done by our team of traders, not the brokers, and there is no restriction which says a client must have more than one wine or a certain specific minimum quantity invested with us. Neither is it in our stated terms and conditions. However, certain collectors do prefer to buy collections of wines rather than individual vintages - hence, we try to sell clients wine for them both individually and as collectors.
'Having said this, based on the investor feedback you've brought to us, we will review the practices and sales techniques of all brokers and traders working at AWI to ensure they comply with company policy on this.'
Exiting or selling wine is a costly exercise as well. Investors have to pay AWI a brokerage of about 5 per cent and the auction house may take a commission of about 12 per cent. There are also moving and storage costs.
The rub, however, is the purchase price: are investors buying at retail or wholesale prices? In answer to this, Mr Lim points to the sale of Hewitson 2009 Private Cellar Barossa Valley Shiraz en primeur at S$158 per magnum (1.5 litre) bottle, including refrigerated shipping, three years' storage and insurance. The same Private Cellar 2009 is quoted by Hewitson Cellar Door at A$70 (S$93) per 750ml bottle, he says.
This appears to be an Australian retail price. If exported to Singapore, it must be discounted by a 10 per cent Australian GST and 29 per cent wine equalisation tax.
But based on a search on http://www.wine-searcher.com, the price of the 2009 vintage is reflected as at about S$39 a bottle by a merchant in Finland. The price includes sales tax.
Clients who want to find alternative ways to sell through merchants here are also caught between a rock and a hard place. This is because while some wines are reportedly of good quality, the rush to exit causes a surge in supply which then predictably dampens prices.
Meanwhile, on the question of possible regulation of alternative investments such as wine, the Monetary Authority of Singapore (MAS) says it 'strongly encourages' consumers to deal only with regulated entities. 'If consumers choose to deal with persons who are not regulated by MAS, they forgo the protection afforded under laws administered by MAS. We have also provided resources to enable consumers to conduct some checks on parties they intend to deal with.'
These resources include a register of representatives and a consumer alert on the dangers of dealing with unregulated persons which can be accessed at http://www.moneysense.gov.sg.
Cheers!
Dennis Ng - When You Master Your Finances, You Master Your Destiny
Note: I'm just sharing my personal comments, not giving you investment advice nor stock investment tips.
Dennis Ng - When You Master Your Finances, You Master Your Destiny
Note: I'm just sharing my personal comments, not giving you investment advice nor stock investment tips.
Re: wine investment
Dealer in US accused of selling counterfeit wine
Indonesian taken into custody in LA on mail and wire fraud charges
New York Times
10 March 2012
Rudy Kurniawan, an Indonesian living in the United States, had ascended to the upper reaches of the wine world on both coasts, renowned as much for his palate as for his eye, fixed often on the highest of high-end bottles. His presence at auctions was constant. His interest by itself was enough to drive prices at the top of the market.
And as his collection brought in millions, he made a show of his own authenticity, offering major buyers an unconditional return policy - exceedingly rare in the industry - while attracting a clientele that included billionaire William Koch. But on Thursday, in the culmination of persistent rumblings about the veracity of his products, Kurniawan was arrested in Los Angeles by the FBI on charges that he had tried to sell counterfeit wine that, if genuine, would have been worth US$1.3 million.
Kurniawan, who sold US$35 million worth of wine in 2006 alone, was taken into custody in Los Angeles on mail and wire fraud charges filed in federal court in New York, according to court papers.
The criminal complaint in the case said that in 2008, Kurniawan consigned for auction at least 84 bottles of counterfeit wine purporting to be from Domaine Ponsot in Burgundy, France, which were expected to sell for approximately US$600,000. Although he represented the wine as authentic, it was not, prosecutors said.
He was also charged with trying to sell a single bottle that he claimed was a 1929 Domaine Ponsot. That was not possible, according to the complaint, because Domaine Ponsot did not begin estate bottling until 1934.
Kurniawan, 35, was also charged with fraudulently obtaining millions of dollars in loans to finance what prosecutors called his ‘high-end lifestyle’. Prosecutors said that a search of his home had turned up materials used in the counterfeiting of wine bottles, according to a person briefed on the proceeding. According to the complaint, he also consigned wine that had purportedly been bottled between 1945 and 1971 from the Clos St-Denis vineyard of Domaine Ponsot, even though the domaine did not make wine from that vineyard until 1982. The wines were later withdrawn from the auction at the request of Domaine Ponsot’s administrator.
Kurniawan maintained that he had obtained the bottles from a person in Asia and had given the administrator two telephone numbers for that person, according to the complaint. But neither number led to that person or anyone else who sold wine, the complaint said; one number was for a regional Indonesian airline and the other was for a shopping mall in Jakarta.
The arrest of Kurniawan, who is charged with three counts of wire fraud and three counts of mail fraud, was announced in a news release issued by the office of the US attorney in Manhattan, Preet Bharara.
‘The bad-faith sale of any commodity you know to be a counterfeit, fake or forgery is a felony,’ Janice Fedarcyk, the FBI’s assistant director in charge of the New York office, said in the news release. ‘Whether you are peddling a Picasso or a Petrus, a Botticelli or a Burgundy, unless it is what you say it is, the sale is a fraud.’
‘Mr Kurniawan’s days of wine and wealth are over, if the allegations in this case are proven,’ Mr Bharara said in the news release.
Indonesian taken into custody in LA on mail and wire fraud charges
New York Times
10 March 2012
Rudy Kurniawan, an Indonesian living in the United States, had ascended to the upper reaches of the wine world on both coasts, renowned as much for his palate as for his eye, fixed often on the highest of high-end bottles. His presence at auctions was constant. His interest by itself was enough to drive prices at the top of the market.
And as his collection brought in millions, he made a show of his own authenticity, offering major buyers an unconditional return policy - exceedingly rare in the industry - while attracting a clientele that included billionaire William Koch. But on Thursday, in the culmination of persistent rumblings about the veracity of his products, Kurniawan was arrested in Los Angeles by the FBI on charges that he had tried to sell counterfeit wine that, if genuine, would have been worth US$1.3 million.
Kurniawan, who sold US$35 million worth of wine in 2006 alone, was taken into custody in Los Angeles on mail and wire fraud charges filed in federal court in New York, according to court papers.
The criminal complaint in the case said that in 2008, Kurniawan consigned for auction at least 84 bottles of counterfeit wine purporting to be from Domaine Ponsot in Burgundy, France, which were expected to sell for approximately US$600,000. Although he represented the wine as authentic, it was not, prosecutors said.
He was also charged with trying to sell a single bottle that he claimed was a 1929 Domaine Ponsot. That was not possible, according to the complaint, because Domaine Ponsot did not begin estate bottling until 1934.
Kurniawan, 35, was also charged with fraudulently obtaining millions of dollars in loans to finance what prosecutors called his ‘high-end lifestyle’. Prosecutors said that a search of his home had turned up materials used in the counterfeiting of wine bottles, according to a person briefed on the proceeding. According to the complaint, he also consigned wine that had purportedly been bottled between 1945 and 1971 from the Clos St-Denis vineyard of Domaine Ponsot, even though the domaine did not make wine from that vineyard until 1982. The wines were later withdrawn from the auction at the request of Domaine Ponsot’s administrator.
Kurniawan maintained that he had obtained the bottles from a person in Asia and had given the administrator two telephone numbers for that person, according to the complaint. But neither number led to that person or anyone else who sold wine, the complaint said; one number was for a regional Indonesian airline and the other was for a shopping mall in Jakarta.
The arrest of Kurniawan, who is charged with three counts of wire fraud and three counts of mail fraud, was announced in a news release issued by the office of the US attorney in Manhattan, Preet Bharara.
‘The bad-faith sale of any commodity you know to be a counterfeit, fake or forgery is a felony,’ Janice Fedarcyk, the FBI’s assistant director in charge of the New York office, said in the news release. ‘Whether you are peddling a Picasso or a Petrus, a Botticelli or a Burgundy, unless it is what you say it is, the sale is a fraud.’
‘Mr Kurniawan’s days of wine and wealth are over, if the allegations in this case are proven,’ Mr Bharara said in the news release.
Cheers!
Dennis Ng - When You Master Your Finances, You Master Your Destiny
Note: I'm just sharing my personal comments, not giving you investment advice nor stock investment tips.
Dennis Ng - When You Master Your Finances, You Master Your Destiny
Note: I'm just sharing my personal comments, not giving you investment advice nor stock investment tips.
Re: wine investment
after reading this post.
A)
seems like problems had surfaced since Jun \ Jul 2011.
and a handful of the graduates hd invested in wine, if ur wine are with the 'problematic' wine investment co, does it meant tat u cant get bk any money?
-100%?
since they may not hv ur wine anymore??? they r insolvent aldy w -ve asset...?
B)
Do u folks intent to join forces to seek address on this issue, had someone actually consult lawyer, bring more attention to the press.
Govt arnt doing anything unless ppl started to complain Loudly, ie Sunshine Empire, Gold investment, Minibonds, AIA Fixed Terms Policy Saga.
Govt dun hv strict regulations or body to hold this type of investments liable with their representations.
So wat other lousy investment advise will turn sour when mkt turn?
Will those so-call group investment into property market seminar - get it too?
As Dr Clemen Chiang mispresent himself, was sued but no real compensation received by the course graduates, they r still trying out other ways to get him aft 4yrs?? He still trying to teach options - discreetly at other countries.
So will other speakers get their karma?
At the end, if u folks do raise this for public awareness, mayb something will b done, or innocent ppl whom read this fm the news will b more careful >
it may b meaningful.
At least Minbond and AIA victims did get back a better package aft smthing was done.
C)
Its really caveat emptor for us.
if we buy a wrong share/stock, the most we cut loss, still reserve sm capital.
but if its this type of high risk investment tat really capsize, all the investment amt may sink along and kept us licking our wounds.
if u r game in this type of high risk investment, it shld only b a small portion of ur capital and b able to stomach a total lost juz in case it turn sour.
For now at least we hv this forum to share our experiences for everybody benefit.
(i didnt hv any wine investment, but experienced with AIA and Dr Clemen Chiang saga before, come together wil create an impact! 加油！)
A)
seems like problems had surfaced since Jun \ Jul 2011.
and a handful of the graduates hd invested in wine, if ur wine are with the 'problematic' wine investment co, does it meant tat u cant get bk any money?
-100%?
since they may not hv ur wine anymore??? they r insolvent aldy w -ve asset...?
B)
Do u folks intent to join forces to seek address on this issue, had someone actually consult lawyer, bring more attention to the press.
Govt arnt doing anything unless ppl started to complain Loudly, ie Sunshine Empire, Gold investment, Minibonds, AIA Fixed Terms Policy Saga.
Govt dun hv strict regulations or body to hold this type of investments liable with their representations.
So wat other lousy investment advise will turn sour when mkt turn?
Will those so-call group investment into property market seminar - get it too?
As Dr Clemen Chiang mispresent himself, was sued but no real compensation received by the course graduates, they r still trying out other ways to get him aft 4yrs?? He still trying to teach options - discreetly at other countries.
So will other speakers get their karma?
At the end, if u folks do raise this for public awareness, mayb something will b done, or innocent ppl whom read this fm the news will b more careful >
it may b meaningful.
At least Minbond and AIA victims did get back a better package aft smthing was done.
C)
Its really caveat emptor for us.
if we buy a wrong share/stock, the most we cut loss, still reserve sm capital.
but if its this type of high risk investment tat really capsize, all the investment amt may sink along and kept us licking our wounds.
if u r game in this type of high risk investment, it shld only b a small portion of ur capital and b able to stomach a total lost juz in case it turn sour.
For now at least we hv this forum to share our experiences for everybody benefit.
(i didnt hv any wine investment, but experienced with AIA and Dr Clemen Chiang saga before, come together wil create an impact! 加油！)
Re: wine investment
Hi,
Since the news is already out on Business Time, then I wanted to condemn the CEO, Mohan Nainan of Assetton PTE LTD . He is a cunning and unscrupulous guy that is out to cheat people money. I had spoken to the CAD officer in charge of the case and she told me that the police can only send him to jail but they will not make him a bankrupt. The victims had to file a separate Civil charges to claim against him. If he unable to pay back all the money he cheated, then the court can make him a bankrupt. Or else once he finish serving his jail term, he will be a free man.
If any of you see this guy or know where we can find him, please let me or Dennis know. Last month I went to his home at BLK 450 SIN MING Avenue, but the people inside the house refuse to open the door after I knock on the door a few times. So obviously he is hiding from us and refuse to contact or answer our phone call.
Anyway just warn all your friends about Mohan as he may be still out there cheating people.
James Tai
Since the news is already out on Business Time, then I wanted to condemn the CEO, Mohan Nainan of Assetton PTE LTD . He is a cunning and unscrupulous guy that is out to cheat people money. I had spoken to the CAD officer in charge of the case and she told me that the police can only send him to jail but they will not make him a bankrupt. The victims had to file a separate Civil charges to claim against him. If he unable to pay back all the money he cheated, then the court can make him a bankrupt. Or else once he finish serving his jail term, he will be a free man.
If any of you see this guy or know where we can find him, please let me or Dennis know. Last month I went to his home at BLK 450 SIN MING Avenue, but the people inside the house refuse to open the door after I knock on the door a few times. So obviously he is hiding from us and refuse to contact or answer our phone call.
Anyway just warn all your friends about Mohan as he may be still out there cheating people.
James Tai
Re: wine investment
Hi James,
Regarding the Bankruptcy Act, I managed to to find some info online:
Insolvency & Public Trustees Office
http://app2.ipto.gov.sg/IPTOServices/In ... fault.aspx
Article on Asiaone by Lorna some time ago
http://singaporewatch.org/?p=959
Q: When and under what circumstances can an individual be discharged from bankruptcy? There is no automatic discharge and the timing depends on various factors, such as whether you have a proposed scheme to settle debts partially, if not wholly.
There are people who remain bankrupt for as long as two decades, and there are dissatisfied creditors who object to a discharge.
Q: Is it true that after three years, the OA may discharge you if you owe less than $500,000?
Under the Bankruptcy Act, the OA has been given an administrative discretion to issue a certificate discharging a person from bankruptcy, provided that:
1) The individual has been bankrupt for at least three years; and
2) The aggregate amount of his debts does not exceed $500,000.
Such a decision is subject to judicial review by the courts.
Perhaps you want to call up IPTO office to find out more.
If it make financial sense to engage a lawyer etc, you can consider to make legal approach towards those cheaters!
Regards,
Sean Chua
Regarding the Bankruptcy Act, I managed to to find some info online:
Insolvency & Public Trustees Office
http://app2.ipto.gov.sg/IPTOServices/In ... fault.aspx
Article on Asiaone by Lorna some time ago
http://singaporewatch.org/?p=959
Q: When and under what circumstances can an individual be discharged from bankruptcy? There is no automatic discharge and the timing depends on various factors, such as whether you have a proposed scheme to settle debts partially, if not wholly.
There are people who remain bankrupt for as long as two decades, and there are dissatisfied creditors who object to a discharge.
Q: Is it true that after three years, the OA may discharge you if you owe less than $500,000?
Under the Bankruptcy Act, the OA has been given an administrative discretion to issue a certificate discharging a person from bankruptcy, provided that:
1) The individual has been bankrupt for at least three years; and
2) The aggregate amount of his debts does not exceed $500,000.
Such a decision is subject to judicial review by the courts.
Perhaps you want to call up IPTO office to find out more.
If it make financial sense to engage a lawyer etc, you can consider to make legal approach towards those cheaters!
Regards,
Sean Chua
'Key to Success is to be always Learning & Applying'
Re: wine investment
yes, my biggest worry is that he may still be out to cheat other people. So please spread the word around about this man, and James has even uploaded his photo taken at a recent event...
People such as Mohan does NOT understand that we always reap what we sow. So if we sow bad, we reap bad.
Whether the police can catch him, whether he's made bankrupt or not, whatever he sowed will come back to him, at least double of what he sowed.
So far, 3 wine companies have gone into trouble, Universal Wine, Premium Liquid Assets (the biggest and most high profile among them) and now Assetton. These people didn't realise that their unscrupulous deeds have tainted the Wine Investment Industry and many, (including myself) have lost confidence in Wine investment becos of them...it's like S-chips, so many collapse that one lose confidence in any S-Chip company (China companies listed in Singapore) and investors might just avoid investing into such companies.
I'm especially disappointed in Mohan becos when Universal Wine went into trouble more than 1 year ago, he personally told me that Assetton is doing a proper business and that we (investors) have letters from warehouse showing the wine is stored in France...yet it we found out recently that even these letters have been forged!
People such as Mohan does NOT understand that we always reap what we sow. So if we sow bad, we reap bad.
Whether the police can catch him, whether he's made bankrupt or not, whatever he sowed will come back to him, at least double of what he sowed.
So far, 3 wine companies have gone into trouble, Universal Wine, Premium Liquid Assets (the biggest and most high profile among them) and now Assetton. These people didn't realise that their unscrupulous deeds have tainted the Wine Investment Industry and many, (including myself) have lost confidence in Wine investment becos of them...it's like S-chips, so many collapse that one lose confidence in any S-Chip company (China companies listed in Singapore) and investors might just avoid investing into such companies.
I'm especially disappointed in Mohan becos when Universal Wine went into trouble more than 1 year ago, he personally told me that Assetton is doing a proper business and that we (investors) have letters from warehouse showing the wine is stored in France...yet it we found out recently that even these letters have been forged!
jamestai wrote:Hi,
Since the news is already out on Business Time, then I wanted to condemn the CEO, Mohan Nainan of Assetton PTE LTD . He is a cunning and unscrupulous guy that is out to cheat people money. I had spoken to the CAD officer in charge of the case and she told me that the police can only send him to jail but they will not make him a bankrupt. The victims had to file a separate Civil charges to claim against him. If he unable to pay back all the money he cheated, then the court can make him a bankrupt. Or else once he finish serving his jail term, he will be a free man.
If any of you see this guy or know where we can find him, please let me or Dennis know. Last month I went to his home at BLK 450 SIN MING Avenue, but the people inside the house refuse to open the door after I knock on the door a few times. So obviously he is hiding from us and refuse to contact or answer our phone call.
Anyway just warn all your friends about Mohan as he may be still out there cheating people.
James Tai
Cheers!
Dennis Ng - When You Master Your Finances, You Master Your Destiny
Note: I'm just sharing my personal comments, not giving you investment advice nor stock investment tips.
Dennis Ng - When You Master Your Finances, You Master Your Destiny
Note: I'm just sharing my personal comments, not giving you investment advice nor stock investment tips.
Re: wine investment
when a person told u anything, it may not be true.
take tat information provided, ask a copy of e information, go look for ur lawyer, seek legal advise even before u invest.
when things turn sour, money aldy w them, it will b a long road to get re -course n its not guarantee, extra time n money required to seek legal action.
when they cheat, they most likely aldy thought abt e worst, so in the process aldy find the loophole.
take tat information provided, ask a copy of e information, go look for ur lawyer, seek legal advise even before u invest.
when things turn sour, money aldy w them, it will b a long road to get re -course n its not guarantee, extra time n money required to seek legal action.
when they cheat, they most likely aldy thought abt e worst, so in the process aldy find the loophole.
Re: wine investment
Hi meowweom,
well, he faked all the documents, including letters from warehouse stating our wine is stored in France. It's like listed companies, if they fake their accounts, then no matter how much we analyse, one will still lose money, becos it is an outright scam.
Thus, the only way to mitigate against such risk is "do not put our eggs in 1 basket", it's asking ourselves, "what if I'm wrong, will I be financially ok?"
I only have 2% invested into Wine, which I share in this forum my Asset Allocation, and I'm financially ok, just that I feel very sad for people who are out to cheat people. I feel sad for them only, becos they don't understand they will always Reap what they Sow, and would reap at least double of what they Sowed.
If everyone in the world truly understand the Universal Law that "we always reap what we sow", that "Give and you shall receive", then perhaps NO one would do any bad deeds, and the world will be a much better place to live.
It's important that we do NOT give in to temptations to cheat or do anything that is NOT right to make money. The most important thing for us to do is to make money Honestly, based on the Right Principles and Values. I have no hatred for people who cheat, only feel sad for them and hope they repent their mistakes and turn over a new leaf for their OWN good.
well, he faked all the documents, including letters from warehouse stating our wine is stored in France. It's like listed companies, if they fake their accounts, then no matter how much we analyse, one will still lose money, becos it is an outright scam.
Thus, the only way to mitigate against such risk is "do not put our eggs in 1 basket", it's asking ourselves, "what if I'm wrong, will I be financially ok?"
I only have 2% invested into Wine, which I share in this forum my Asset Allocation, and I'm financially ok, just that I feel very sad for people who are out to cheat people. I feel sad for them only, becos they don't understand they will always Reap what they Sow, and would reap at least double of what they Sowed.
If everyone in the world truly understand the Universal Law that "we always reap what we sow", that "Give and you shall receive", then perhaps NO one would do any bad deeds, and the world will be a much better place to live.
It's important that we do NOT give in to temptations to cheat or do anything that is NOT right to make money. The most important thing for us to do is to make money Honestly, based on the Right Principles and Values. I have no hatred for people who cheat, only feel sad for them and hope they repent their mistakes and turn over a new leaf for their OWN good.
meowweom wrote:when a person told u anything, it may not be true.
take tat information provided, ask a copy of e information, go look for ur lawyer, seek legal advise even before u invest.
when things turn sour, money aldy w them, it will b a long road to get re -course n its not guarantee, extra time n money required to seek legal action.
when they cheat, they most likely aldy thought abt e worst, so in the process aldy find the loophole.
Cheers!
Dennis Ng - When You Master Your Finances, You Master Your Destiny
Note: I'm just sharing my personal comments, not giving you investment advice nor stock investment tips.
Dennis Ng - When You Master Your Finances, You Master Your Destiny
Note: I'm just sharing my personal comments, not giving you investment advice nor stock investment tips.
Re: wine investment
Hi Sean,
Thank you for the info. I have also call ACRA yesterday to check on the status of Assetton PTE Ltd, they told me in their system the company is still alive. However the company have not file their Annual return for past 2 years and ACRA had already sent a few warning letters to the directors of the company. If they still don't file the return, ACRA is going to issue a warrant of arrest and the director have to go to court. But I don't the court will make him bankrupt base on that, maybe just fine or another charges to go to jail.
James Tai
Thank you for the info. I have also call ACRA yesterday to check on the status of Assetton PTE Ltd, they told me in their system the company is still alive. However the company have not file their Annual return for past 2 years and ACRA had already sent a few warning letters to the directors of the company. If they still don't file the return, ACRA is going to issue a warrant of arrest and the director have to go to court. But I don't the court will make him bankrupt base on that, maybe just fine or another charges to go to jail.
James Tai
schua7 wrote:Hi James,
Regarding the Bankruptcy Act, I managed to to find some info online:
Insolvency & Public Trustees Office
http://app2.ipto.gov.sg/IPTOServices/In ... fault.aspx
Article on Asiaone by Lorna some time ago
http://singaporewatch.org/?p=959
Q: When and under what circumstances can an individual be discharged from bankruptcy? There is no automatic discharge and the timing depends on various factors, such as whether you have a proposed scheme to settle debts partially, if not wholly.
There are people who remain bankrupt for as long as two decades, and there are dissatisfied creditors who object to a discharge.
Q: Is it true that after three years, the OA may discharge you if you owe less than $500,000?
Under the Bankruptcy Act, the OA has been given an administrative discretion to issue a certificate discharging a person from bankruptcy, provided that:
1) The individual has been bankrupt for at least three years; and
2) The aggregate amount of his debts does not exceed $500,000.
Such a decision is subject to judicial review by the courts.
Perhaps you want to call up IPTO office to find out more.
If it make financial sense to engage a lawyer etc, you can consider to make legal approach towards those cheaters!
Regards,
Sean Chua
Re: wine investment
There are lots of wolf out there. Becareful with your hard earn money.
Financial adviser jailed for cheating clients
Published on Mar 15, 2012
Lim's investment scam caused a total loss of $265,000 between 2006 and 2008 for three clients.
A financial adviser gained the trust of his clients by chalking up healthy returns for their Central Provident Fund investments through his employer Elpis Financial.
Edwin Lim Gee Chai then cooked up an investment scam whose carrot was the protection of the principal amount while paying high interest.
These investments had to be in cash and three clients lost a total of $265,000 between 2006 and 2008.
Lim, 31, pleaded guilty on Wednesday to cheating and forgery and was sentenced to a year and 10 months in prison.
Assistant Public Prosecutor Kalidass Murugaiyan said Lim also forged documents with the Elpis letterhead to fool his victims.
A district court heard that in 2006, air-con technician Yong Si, 59, invested $4,800 of his CPF funds through Elpis. A month later, Lim managed to persuade Mr Yong to put $40,000 in the bogus investment scheme after promising a guaranteed annual profit of 8 per cent.
Mr Yong received $3,200 a year later as 'profit' but nothing after that.
Lim also cheated Ms Chong Sook Siang, 32, and her 61-year-old mother of a total of $225,000.
Ms Chong, a product development executive, ran a background check on Elpis before she committed her CPF money in a unit trust.
She found out that the firm was approved by the Monetary Authority of Singapore and marketed financial products on behalf of Aviva.
Later that year in 2007, Lim introduced his bogus investment scheme to Ms Chong and her mother, a canteen assistant.
He called it the Small Medium Enterprise Loan and promised them a monthly return of 1 per cent with the principal sum assured.
The court heard that only $27,700 has been recovered by the police.
When Senior District Judge See Kee Oon asked Lim where the rest of the money was, he said he had passed it to his company.
When pressed further, he added that 'he was in no position to explain'.
Assistant Public Prosecutor Kalidass said one reason the case took so long to come to court was because Lim had tried to implicate his colleagues at Elpis.
This required further investigations but no evidence surfaced to support these assertions, said the prosecutor.
The maximum penalty for cheating is a seven-year jail term and a $10,000 fine while that for forgery is a two-year jail term and a $10,000 fine.
Financial adviser jailed for cheating clients
Published on Mar 15, 2012
Lim's investment scam caused a total loss of $265,000 between 2006 and 2008 for three clients.
A financial adviser gained the trust of his clients by chalking up healthy returns for their Central Provident Fund investments through his employer Elpis Financial.
Edwin Lim Gee Chai then cooked up an investment scam whose carrot was the protection of the principal amount while paying high interest.
These investments had to be in cash and three clients lost a total of $265,000 between 2006 and 2008.
Lim, 31, pleaded guilty on Wednesday to cheating and forgery and was sentenced to a year and 10 months in prison.
Assistant Public Prosecutor Kalidass Murugaiyan said Lim also forged documents with the Elpis letterhead to fool his victims.
A district court heard that in 2006, air-con technician Yong Si, 59, invested $4,800 of his CPF funds through Elpis. A month later, Lim managed to persuade Mr Yong to put $40,000 in the bogus investment scheme after promising a guaranteed annual profit of 8 per cent.
Mr Yong received $3,200 a year later as 'profit' but nothing after that.
Lim also cheated Ms Chong Sook Siang, 32, and her 61-year-old mother of a total of $225,000.
Ms Chong, a product development executive, ran a background check on Elpis before she committed her CPF money in a unit trust.
She found out that the firm was approved by the Monetary Authority of Singapore and marketed financial products on behalf of Aviva.
Later that year in 2007, Lim introduced his bogus investment scheme to Ms Chong and her mother, a canteen assistant.
He called it the Small Medium Enterprise Loan and promised them a monthly return of 1 per cent with the principal sum assured.
The court heard that only $27,700 has been recovered by the police.
When Senior District Judge See Kee Oon asked Lim where the rest of the money was, he said he had passed it to his company.
When pressed further, he added that 'he was in no position to explain'.
Assistant Public Prosecutor Kalidass said one reason the case took so long to come to court was because Lim had tried to implicate his colleagues at Elpis.
This required further investigations but no evidence surfaced to support these assertions, said the prosecutor.
The maximum penalty for cheating is a seven-year jail term and a $10,000 fine while that for forgery is a two-year jail term and a $10,000 fine.
Price is what you pay; Value is what you get
RayNg
RayNg
Re: wine investment
I think anyone with some financial knowledge will NOT fall for this scam.
So anyone attending my How to Save and Accumulate One Million Dollars seminar where I shared "how to avoid falling into scams" would NOT fall for this silly scam at all. No worries.
Get your friends to attend my seminar so that they would NOT fall for such silly scams.
Cheers!
Dennis Ng
So anyone attending my How to Save and Accumulate One Million Dollars seminar where I shared "how to avoid falling into scams" would NOT fall for this silly scam at all. No worries.
Get your friends to attend my seminar so that they would NOT fall for such silly scams.
Cheers!
Dennis Ng
ngtfook wrote:There are lots of wolf out there. Becareful with your hard earn money.
Financial adviser jailed for cheating clients
Published on Mar 15, 2012
Lim's investment scam caused a total loss of $265,000 between 2006 and 2008 for three clients.
A financial adviser gained the trust of his clients by chalking up healthy returns for their Central Provident Fund investments through his employer Elpis Financial.
Edwin Lim Gee Chai then cooked up an investment scam whose carrot was the protection of the principal amount while paying high interest.
These investments had to be in cash and three clients lost a total of $265,000 between 2006 and 2008.
Lim, 31, pleaded guilty on Wednesday to cheating and forgery and was sentenced to a year and 10 months in prison.
Assistant Public Prosecutor Kalidass Murugaiyan said Lim also forged documents with the Elpis letterhead to fool his victims.
A district court heard that in 2006, air-con technician Yong Si, 59, invested $4,800 of his CPF funds through Elpis. A month later, Lim managed to persuade Mr Yong to put $40,000 in the bogus investment scheme after promising a guaranteed annual profit of 8 per cent.
Mr Yong received $3,200 a year later as 'profit' but nothing after that.
Lim also cheated Ms Chong Sook Siang, 32, and her 61-year-old mother of a total of $225,000.
Ms Chong, a product development executive, ran a background check on Elpis before she committed her CPF money in a unit trust.
She found out that the firm was approved by the Monetary Authority of Singapore and marketed financial products on behalf of Aviva.
Later that year in 2007, Lim introduced his bogus investment scheme to Ms Chong and her mother, a canteen assistant.
He called it the Small Medium Enterprise Loan and promised them a monthly return of 1 per cent with the principal sum assured.
The court heard that only $27,700 has been recovered by the police.
When Senior District Judge See Kee Oon asked Lim where the rest of the money was, he said he had passed it to his company.
When pressed further, he added that 'he was in no position to explain'.
Assistant Public Prosecutor Kalidass said one reason the case took so long to come to court was because Lim had tried to implicate his colleagues at Elpis.
This required further investigations but no evidence surfaced to support these assertions, said the prosecutor.
The maximum penalty for cheating is a seven-year jail term and a $10,000 fine while that for forgery is a two-year jail term and a $10,000 fine.
Cheers!
Dennis Ng - When You Master Your Finances, You Master Your Destiny
Note: I'm just sharing my personal comments, not giving you investment advice nor stock investment tips.
Dennis Ng - When You Master Your Finances, You Master Your Destiny
Note: I'm just sharing my personal comments, not giving you investment advice nor stock investment tips.