Wine Investment

[OCP]

Hi Dennis,

What is the initial amount to start wine investment?

Thanks
OCP

[Dennis Ng]

Hi Dennis,

What is the initial amount to start wine investment?

Thanks
OCP

Hi OCP,

from what I understand, is about S$15,000. According to a friend of mine who is very experienced in Wine, told me that try not to invest into Australian Wine, becos their value is relatively unproven, stick to top Investment Grade Wine from France, which has an established market since 1855.

[OCP]

Hi Dennis,

What is the initial amount to start wine investment?

Thanks
OCP

Hi OCP,

from what I understand, is about S$15,000. According to a friend of mine who is very experienced in Wine, told me that try not to invest into Australian Wine, becos their value is relatively unproven, stick to top Investment Grade Wine from France, which has an established market since 1855.

Hi Dennis,

Thanks for you info.

Cheers
OCP

[wemakebread]

Just to share what I have come across.

1. Agree to avoid Australian and other lesser known wines.
In fact, try to stick only to investment grade French wine.
Best if highly rated by Robert Parker, world recognised wine guru.
High rating means > 90 points.

The reason is "liquidity" or "tradability"
Unproven wine may not find a buyer when you want to exit.
Widely-recognised wine with good rating is easier to sell (liquidate).

2. I think min. order can be as small as 1 case of 6 bottles.
But ultimately depends on what your wine broker is able to offer.

Some brokers may suggest building a wine portfolio.
Likely to be in the region of SGD 10-15k or more.

3. Storage & Insurance

I agree with the idea of not transporting the wine to Singapore.
Transit & improper storage may degrade the wine.

But having your wine sitting in someone's cellar in a foreign land has its own risks. Therefore do scrutinize the terms & conditions and what risks are covered by insurance.

Whether store in-situ (place of origin) or in a cold room facility (Singapore), there is probably a recurring storage/maintenance fee + insurance. Hence you need to be clear and comfortable about how long you intend to hold on to this investment. Then work out estimated expenses.


Personally, I feel that wine investment is a nice option for long-term investment, especially for diversification from traditional capital markets/financial instruments. However, this is applicable only if one has a sufficiently large investment portfolio, say > SGD 100,000, preferably more (so that wine takes up only < 10-15% of total portfolio).

[OCP]

Just to share what I have come across.

1. Agree to avoid Australian and other lesser known wines.
In fact, try to stick only to investment grade French wine.
Best if highly rated by Robert Parker, world recognised wine guru.
High rating means > 90 points.

The reason is "liquidity" or "tradability"
Unproven wine may not find a buyer when you want to exit.
Widely-recognised wine with good rating is easier to sell (liquidate).

2. I think min. order can be as small as 1 case of 6 bottles.
But ultimately depends on what your wine broker is able to offer.

Some brokers may suggest building a wine portfolio.
Likely to be in the region of SGD 10-15k or more.

3. Storage & Insurance

I agree with the idea of not transporting the wine to Singapore.
Transit & improper storage may degrade the wine.

But having your wine sitting in someone's cellar in a foreign land has its own risks. Therefore do scrutinize the terms & conditions and what risks are covered by insurance.

Whether store in-situ (place of origin) or in a cold room facility (Singapore), there is probably a recurring storage/maintenance fee + insurance. Hence you need to be clear and comfortable about how long you intend to hold on to this investment. Then work out estimated expenses.


Personally, I feel that wine investment is a nice option for long-term investment, especially for diversification from traditional capital markets/financial instruments. However, this is applicable only if one has a sufficiently large investment portfolio, say > SGD 100,000, preferably more (so that wine takes up only < 10-15% of total portfolio).

Thanks for the sharing

Cheers

[findleowong]

Hi Dennis,

Do you mind to share with us, which wine companies in Singapore are reliable and more trustworthy for wine investment?

Thanks
Leo

[Dennis Ng]

Hi Dennis,

Do you mind to share with us, which wine companies in Singapore are reliable and more trustworthy for wine investment?

Thanks
Leo

Hi Leo,
Fine Wine investing for Retail Investors has a relatively short history of about 5 years. Most of the companies have been set up in the last few years only. You might want to check around, as I understand that sometimes the same Wine offered by 2 different companies can be different as well.

Importantly, you need to make sure that you are the Owner of the Wine.

[findleowong]

Noted on it Dennis. Thanks for the feedback and sharing as well your prompt reply to our queries.

[Dennis Ng]

Noted on it Dennis. Thanks for the feedback and sharing as well your prompt reply to our queries.

Hi Leo,

you're welcome. As mentioned, I set up this Discussion Forum so as to provide all my Seminar Graduates an easily accessible platform to continue their Learning and Sharing Journey.

Thank you for your sharing on this forum on various topics as well.

[findleowong]

Hi Dennis,

indeed, just attended your property seminar few weeks back. Looking forward to other seminars and future books from you in the near future.

Cheers
Leo

[Dennis Ng]

Hi Dennis,

indeed, just attended your property seminar few weeks back. Looking forward to other seminars and future books from you in the near future.

Cheers
Leo

Hi Leo,
so, will you be attending the Special Wealth Opportunity Sharing session on 9 Jun 2010? Try to attend if possible. We'll be making very Exciting Announcement, so exciting that I'm excitedly looking forward to the session myself.

[jamestai]

Hi,

I just want to share with you my wine investment experience and also like to hear any of your view or anyone who might have more experience in wine investment to advise me about my current wine investment situation.

I also get to know about wine investment after attending Dennis Seminar, and then I get to know Assetton PTE LTD who deal with investment of fine wine.

In Feb 2009 I invested 2 cases (12 Bottles X 75CL each) of Chateau Ausone. In total my invested amount is Euro $6756 and base on the exchange rate of SGD 1.9719 on 23 Jan 2009, in total I invested SGD $13322.16.

On 30 April 2010, I receive a valuation report from Assetton that my wine and is price at EUR 7152.

As of today 11 Jun 2010, the Euro had drop to exchange rate of 1 EURO equal to around SGD $1.7000. Therefore if I base on the last valuation price of the wine, I had lost SGD $1164.36 which is around 9% lost to me base on the orginal amount I invested into the wine. And in the contract, if I engage Assetton to sell away the wine for me, I have to pay them 10% sale charges. Also you have to wait for a few days or week for them to sell or find a buyer for you.

Now I am not sure should I just hold on to this wine investment and hope that EURO currency to get stronger and hopefully back to exchange rate of around 1 EURO to SGD 1.9. I have to wait for a few more years for the wine value to appreciate further until it break even on my initial investment. But the risk can also be that as the wine value increase the EURO currency can also get weaker, so appreciation of the wine vaue will take even longer to catch up with the falling EURO currency. So I don't know should I just hold to my wine and wait, and does it worth the wait ? Or should I just accept that face that it is unfortunate of me to invest in the wrong time so I should sell away the wine and accept my losses in this investment ?

Do you guys think the EURO currency appreciate back to the exchange rate of 1 EURO to SGD $1.90 in the near future ?

Regards,

James Tai

[ironman]

I think for wine investment, the time horizon should be longer...say at least 3 - 5 yrs. Personally, i'd prefer at least 5 yrs. The appreciation in the wine value can thus over ride the depreciation of the euro....unless the euro depreciate at an even faster rate.

If i'm not wrong, most of those fine wines annualised returns are at least 10% or more...correct me if i'm wrong.

So long term vesting should be the way to go.

[wemakebread]

This is so sad.

Another wine investment company hit news headlines
http://www.todayonline.com/Singapore/ED ... tment-firm


I remember looking around the "vibrant" & largely unregulated landscape about 2-3 years ago, there are so many interesting things around.

To date, companies like Profitable Plots, Land International, Oilpods, Universal Asset Group, Assets Wine Management, Sunshine Empire, etc are revealed to be "unsustainable".


Just to side-track, we have also seen Spas, Photo studios & other time-share companies winding up. Even high-profile social/religious organisations like NKF, Youth Challenge, Ren Ci & City Harvest have appeared in the news for unenviable reasons.

On the education side, we have come across degree mills & at least 1 investment training school (Freely) being sued.

Not to mention people who lost money in the Pinnacle Notes.


I wonder aloud, WHAT is next? WHO is next?


How can we be wise & avoid becoming a victim ourself?
How can we share knowledge to help others avoid these as well?

[Dennis Ng]

This is so sad.

Another wine investment company hit news headlines
http://www.todayonline.com/Singapore/ED ... tment-firm


I remember looking around the "vibrant" & largely unregulated landscape about 2-3 years ago, there are so many interesting things around.

To date, companies like Profitable Plots, Land International, Oilpods, Universal Asset Group, Assets Wine Management, Sunshine Empire, etc are revealed to be "unsustainable".


Just to side-track, we have also seen Spas, Photo studios & other time-share companies winding up. Even high-profile social/religious organisations like NKF, Youth Challenge, Ren Ci & City Harvest have appeared in the news for unenviable reasons.

On the education side, we have come across degree mills & at least 1 investment training school (Freely) being sued.

Not to mention people who lost money in the Pinnacle Notes.


I wonder aloud, WHAT is next? WHO is next?


How can we be wise & avoid becoming a victim ourself?
How can we share knowledge to help others avoid these as well?

yes, which is why "How to Avoid Falling into Scams" is one of the topic covered in my 1-day Seminar "How to Save and Accumulate One Million Dollars" Seminar, and so far, I've managed to avoid losing money in ALL of these "mishaps".

It is becos of luck or is it becos that my "Financial Intelligence" helped me? I would think it is the latter, which is why I think such Financial Knowledge/Acumen can be imparted through Seminars, which is why I started conducting seminars since May 2009.