Is this "Gold Investment" a Scam?

[patng8]

This is frustrating.

When i told some of my friends who invested thru XXX abt the alert put by the MAS. Guess what they replied : "Oh, usually good scheme will invite rumours and bad remarks"

I even spoke to the salesperson who tried to convince me of this so-called good plan. He said if you are not interested please do not go and brainwash my friends who have invested.

Taken from http://www.ifa-sg.com/the-gold-label-ma ... lert-list/

The Monetary Authority of Singapore (MAS) has placed The Gold Label in The Investor Alert List. According to The Investor Alert List website – “From time to time, MAS receives information on unregulated persons who have been mistaken as being licensed or authorised by MAS. Consumers should exercise care when dealing with these persons. Overseas consumers who receive solicitations by persons who claim to have an operation in Singapore should also exercise care and check if they are in fact dealing with persons who are regulated by MAS.”.

Others listed in The Investor Alert List include Sunshine Empire, Profitable Group and Swiss Cash.

According to the MoneySense site, the telltale signs of unregulated person include high-pressured sales tactics and promises of high returns, ‘guaranteed’ profits and quick gains.

This is such a serious issue, that I've decided to classify this discussion thread as an announcement, so that everyone reading this forum, will be alerted of this discussion.

it's not just Gold Label, the company. The real problem is the scheme cannot be sustainable, so no matter which company, it is just a matter of time they will go bust.


I really sincerely urge ALL Seminar graduates out there, if you know of any friends who are involved in selling this investment to the public, please ask the person to Stop ASAP, one day, he/she will regret it when he/she NOT only lost money, but lose friends and relatives when such schemes go bust.

If you have invested in a scheme like this, please try to get out as soon as possible before it is too late.

Ask yourself, how would such a scheme be sustainable? I have shared in my Secrets to Making Money in Stocks Seminar the CORRECT way to invest into Gold and Silver, do NOT invest through such schemes.

If you attend my How to Save and Accumulate One Million Dollars Seminar, please go through the notes on "what are the common features of scams" and you should know what to do.

[Dennis Ng]

This is frustrating.

When i told some of my friends who invested thru XXX abt the alert put by the MAS. Guess what they replied : "Oh, usually good scheme will invite rumours and bad remarks"

I even spoke to the salesperson who tried to convince me of this so-called good plan. He said if you are not interested please do not go and brainwash my friends who have invested.

Hi patng8,
I don't really care what others say, as long as I know I have a Clear Conscience and my intentions is good. Maybe you can do the same.

So one day, they will realise they should have listened to you. I hope we don't see them crying and shouting at Speakers' Corner.

[lootster]

Hi patng8,

Dennis is right that as long you do things with a clear conscience, you should not be afraid of what others say or think of you.

Tell your friends its because you treat them as friends thats why you warn them beforehand rather than letting them learn through the hard way. (Which I think they should!) I am speaking from experience....

As for the salesperson, maybe you can take a snapshot of his picture so as to warn others haha!

This is frustrating.

When i told some of my friends who invested thru XXX abt the alert put by the MAS. Guess what they replied : "Oh, usually good scheme will invite rumours and bad remarks"

I even spoke to the salesperson who tried to convince me of this so-called good plan. He said if you are not interested please do not go and brainwash my friends who have invested.

Hi patng8,
I don't really care what others say, as long as I know I have a Clear Conscience and my intentions is good. Maybe you can do the same.

So one day, they will realise they should have listened to you. I hope we don't see them crying and shouting at Speakers' Corner.

[woonty]

Not another Sunshine Empire or Profitable Plots, etc

Usually people don't invest 100% so I guess it will just be a small tuition fees for a good learning experience IF THINGS GO WRONG

[Dennis Ng]

News about trouble of a different company offering Gold "Investment".

It is a Well Known FACT for thousand of years that Gold or Silver does NOT give interest. So anyone/company claiming they give interest on Gold/Silver, better beware.

Cheers!

Dennis Ng

The Straits Times
Sep 2, 2011
Gold bar scheme: 120 fear they may lose $40m
Firm under probe after an investor's complaint

By Kimberly Spykerman & Cheryl Ong

A FIRM is at the centre of a police investigation after a customer claimed to have lost $300,000 which was invested in gold bars.

Bao Jing Trading is believed to be having cashflow problems, and there are fears that about 120 investors could lose up to $40 million.

At least two more police reports have been made against the company, based in the Rochor Centre, The Straits Times understands.

But many investors are afraid to approach the authorities for fear the firm will not give them their money back, according to one alleged victim.

Bao Jing - which is not licensed or regulated by the Monetary Authority of Singapore - pitched its gold trading scheme as a way to help customers cash in on the rocketing price of the precious metal, which tends to rise in value during periods of slow economic growth.

Investors were promised monthly returns of between 1.5 per cent and 3 per cent, said a report by Shin Min Daily News. But if they left the bars with the company, they could get between 7 per cent and 10 per cent, the newspaper added.

The customers realised something was wrong when the firm failed to pay the promised returns.

A 70-year-old woman, who wanted to be known only as Madam Yen, told The Straits Times that she had lost more than $200,000 after being introduced to the company by a friend.

She said that when she made a trip to its office, the boss told her he would not give her back the cash if she went to the police. 'I'm heartbroken... this money is more than half my retirement savings,' she said in Mandarin.

In desperation, she and about 20 other investors decided to confront the company's owners on Monday, gathering outside the office's glass doors to ask for their money back. The owners failed to show up and the office has been empty since.

Bao Jing is run by Malaysians Lee Chee Woi, a permanent resident, and Cheong Kok Heng, according to records held by the Accounting and Corporate Regulatory Authority.

Mr Lee registered his company at a local address, in an HDB flat in Jurong East.

But when The Straits Times paid a visit, it turned out to be occupied by a family who denied any links with the firm.

A 38-year-old man in the flat, who wanted to be known only as Mr Pang, said Mr Lee lives in Malaysia but uses his Singapore address to receive mail.

'We're ex-colleagues,' he said. 'All his letters come under my address but I pass them to another colleague of mine who is an acquaintance we both know. I think it's a misunderstanding. All along, his company has been doing well. He won't do this sort of thing.'

Shin Min also reported yesterday that Mr Cheong was once arrested in Malaysia for money-laundering offences.

kimspyke@sph.com.sg

ongyiern@sph.com.sg

[winstonteo]

Came across this 2 links so just to warn forum members ....

http://www.XXX.com.sg/index.html

http://www.thegoldlabel.com/index.html

I would not call it a Scam, just selling gold at inflated prices. It is up to consumers to do their own homework before they buy anything, whether it is gold or anything else.

Hi Nana,

The prevailing price of gold & silver offered by UOB can be found at
https://uniservices1.uobgroup.com/secur ... prices.jsp?&#

There's a phone number at the bottom to call if you want the most up-to-date price. Please compare this price with what the company is offering you.

Cheers

thanks wemakebread for sharing the link.

UOB's selling price is about S$57,743 today, I think those "companies" currently offer the same gold at about S$70,000, or about 20% higher, no wonder they can give people "bonus" on their gold.

Just to share, I have friend who is involved in this Gold Trading Business which he has offered to me. He explained to me:

This is his explanation as how the company works. It's up to you to determine the facts.

XXX started out 1st in Singapore before The Gold Label come into share into this profit making business - however it has already filed for liquidation.

The company do jug up their prices say 15% to 20% more(not sure the exact %) compared to the market UOB is selling so:
1) The agency will earn approximately 1 to 1.5% of the sale (monthly) they closed - so long as the customer continue the renewal 3 monthly.

2) The company earn the profit as they have already jug up the price much higher.

3) They then use the fund for other profitable investment which they did not disclose (e.g Forex which can yield a 3-12% profit using OPM + the hedging which claims to prevent them from going into cashflow problem if the Gold price drop drastically)

So this is how my friend who is an agent explains to me how the company able to sustain such a business, which can be similar to the insurance industry whereby company using OPM to invest and return higher yield to their customers.

As for the risk, he added, if in the event the company do close down, you still hold the gold, you lose probably 15% to 25%, but as least it is not everything. This is the risk in this Gold trading business has - calculated risk and loss).

He has tried bringing the Gold bar to the Pawn Shop, they offered the price which is approximate 15% lower in market (like the risk we mention) which means they accept to deal.

To really test the Gold, you will require to have some destructive method to test its real percentage.

These are some homework I did and found out - I am still pondering if I should go into such investment/business opportunities.

What are your suggestion/opinions? Maybe you all have more indepth knowledge and experience to share with me..

[Dennis Ng]

Came across this 2 links so just to warn forum members ....

http://www.XXX.com.sg/index.html

http://www.thegoldlabel.com/index.html

I would not call it a Scam, just selling gold at inflated prices. It is up to consumers to do their own homework before they buy anything, whether it is gold or anything else.

thanks wemakebread for sharing the link.

UOB's selling price is about S$57,743 today, I think those "companies" currently offer the same gold at about S$70,000, or about 20% higher, no wonder they can give people "bonus" on their gold.

Just to share, I have friend who is involved in this Gold Trading Business which he has offered to me. He explained to me:

This is his explanation as how the company works. It's up to you to determine the facts.

XXX started out 1st in Singapore before The Gold Label come into share into this profit making business - however it has already filed for liquidation.

The company do jug up their prices say 15% to 20% more(not sure the exact %) compared to the market UOB is selling so:
1) The agency will earn approximately 1 to 1.5% of the sale (monthly) they closed - so long as the customer continue the renewal 3 monthly.

2) The company earn the profit as they have already jug up the price much higher.

3) They then use the fund for other profitable investment which they did not disclose (e.g Forex which can yield a 3-12% profit using OPM + the hedging which claims to prevent them from going into cashflow problem if the Gold price drop drastically)

So this is how my friend who is an agent explains to me how the company able to sustain such a business, which can be similar to the insurance industry whereby company using OPM to invest and return higher yield to their customers.

As for the risk, he added, if in the event the company do close down, you still hold the gold, you lose probably 15% to 25%, but as least it is not everything. This is the risk in this Gold trading business has - calculated risk and loss).

He has tried bringing the Gold bar to the Pawn Shop, they offered the price which is approximate 15% lower in market (like the risk we mention) which means they accept to deal.

To really test the Gold, you will require to have some destructive method to test its real percentage.

These are some homework I did and found out - I am still pondering if I should go into such investment/business opportunities.

What are your suggestion/opinions? Maybe you all have more indepth knowledge and experience to share with me..

Actually, if you think about it, you're actually in a way lending money for them to do whatever they like with your money while you hold the gold as collateral (collateral value less than promised return of money) and hope they have money to pay you back plus interest on maturity date.

If you think this is a good deal, just go ahead.

Who can say why is it not possible for this company to go bust like The Gold Label? How are they different from Gold Label in any way? Please try to find this out independently, instead of everything listening to whatever they tell you. How to verify whatever info they tell you? Any third party source can verify?

What can go wrong? Well, one company The Gold Label has already gone down.

When Gold price plunge by 30% or more, hope they can pay you back your higher purchase price (higher than market by 20% to 2550 plus "interest" (18% to 24% per year). Well, you would say no problem, becos your friend claimed they hedged their gold position.

Do they hedge their position in Gold? Any evidence? How much is cost of hedging Gold, do you know? Or you just blindly invest without knowing all these things?

Please do NOT quote me on all these things. Find out all these information yourself. I hope seminar graduates do NOT quote any company name in ANY discussion in the forum, becos you're unfairly subjecting me the administrator of the forum to unwarranted risks.

We can mention company that have already gone into trouble. eg. The Gold Label for Gold and Profitable Plots for Land though.

Anyone contravening such rules might be banned from the forum forever.

[TieGe]

In all investments as the name implies, there will be risk and also reward.
As long as you know them all it is your decision.

Example if a person is a risk taker and only knows how to put money in the bank and alternative buy the 4-D, indeed he has very little option.
It is his money and his right how to invest. No one can say a thing.

As we all have learnt, is the up side double than the downside and
what if I am wrong will I still be ok?

Same for this gold investment. If you are really going into it, I will suggest you to take out all your capital once you recover them and put the profit in it. This is called profit taking (also capital preservation)

Tie Ge

[Dennis Ng]

In all investments as the name implies, there will be risk and also reward.
As long as you know them all it is your decision.

Example if a person is a risk taker and only knows how to put money in the bank and alternative buy the 4-D, indeed he has very little option.
It is his money and his right how to invest. No one can say a thing.

As we all have learnt, is the up side double than the downside and
what if I am wrong will I still be ok?

Same for this gold investment. If you are really going into it, I will suggest you to take out all your capital once you recover them and put the profit in it. This is called profit taking (also capital preservation)

Tie Ge

I disagree, my analysis is this is not really investing, but "investors" are really lending money for people to do whatever they like with the money.

Read and re-read what I wrote below.

Cheers!

Dennis Ng

Actually, if you think about it, you're actually in a way lending money for them to do whatever they like with your money while you hold the gold as collateral (collateral value less than promised return of money) and hope they have money to pay you back plus interest on maturity date.

If you think this is a good deal, just go ahead.

Who can say why is it not possible for this company to go bust like The Gold Label? How are they different from Gold Label in any way? Please try to find this out independently, instead of everything listening to whatever they tell you. How to verify whatever info they tell you? Any third party source can verify?

What can go wrong? Well, one company The Gold Label has already gone down.

[TieGe]

Dennis
I noted your point. If you look at my post again, I explained but say nothing. I agree with you it is not investment.

What I attempting to do is to let the person make his own decision.
In life, the best teacher is still the experience but it could be costly.

It is best for the person to learn to increase its analysis and thinking process.

Tie Ge

[TieGe]

Winston,
For this investment are you able to say that

The up side double than the downside?

Tie Ge

[Dennis Ng]

Dennis
I noted your point. If you look at my post again, I explained but say nothing. I agree with you it is not investment.

What I attempting to do is to let the person make his own decision.
In life, the best teacher is still the experience but it could be costly.

It is best for the person to learn to increase its analysis and thinking process.

Tie Ge

Hi Tie Ge,
my disagreement with your posting is you mention it is investment, it is NOT.

I have already shared with the person what additional information he should find out and verify, this should help him in analysing the information further.

As I also said, if he thinks it is a good deal, just go ahead.

I'm NOT here to advise anyone on any investments, I hope this is clear to all seminar graduates. I' here to teach and share my thinking process and my investment philosophy and strategies, not to give anyone any fish. (investment tips).

[winstonteo]

Actually, if you think about it, you're actually in a way lending money for them to do whatever they like with your money while you hold the gold as collateral (collateral value less than promised return of money) and hope they have money to pay you back plus interest on maturity date.

If you think this is a good deal, just go ahead.

Who can say why is it not possible for this company to go bust like The Gold Label? How are they different from Gold Label in any way? Please try to find this out independently, instead of everything listening to whatever they tell you. How to verify whatever info they tell you? Any third party source can verify?

What can go wrong? Well, one company The Gold Label has already gone down.

When Gold price plunge by 30% or more, hope they can pay you back your higher purchase price (higher than market by 20% to 2550 plus "interest" (18% to 24% per year). Well, you would say no problem, becos your friend claimed they hedged their gold position.

Do they hedge their position in Gold? Any evidence? How much is cost of hedging Gold, do you know? Or you just blindly invest without knowing all these things?

Please do NOT quote me on all these things. Find out all these information yourself. I hope seminar graduates do NOT quote any company name in ANY discussion in the forum, becos you're unfairly subjecting me the administrator of the forum to unwarranted risks.

We can mention company that have already gone into trouble. eg. The Gold Label for Gold and Profitable Plots for Land though.

Anyone contravening such rules might be banned from the forum forever.

Hi Dennis,

Yes I do fear that this XXX company might end up same fate as Gold Label. We do not have access to their company cashflow statement, so whether they are reaping good profit or not I have no idea.

You did point out many question to ask myself which I haven thought of yet, and least not that in-depth enough, thanks for the advise. I will try to find out more information to and see if they can provide answers.

You just pointed out NOT to quote any company name except those that have gone into trouble, I didn't realise that is violating the rule. I will bear in mind not to repeat that error again. Thanks.

[Dennis Ng]

Actually, if you think about it, you're actually in a way lending money for them to do whatever they like with your money while you hold the gold as collateral (collateral value less than promised return of money) and hope they have money to pay you back plus interest on maturity date.

If you think this is a good deal, just go ahead.

Who can say why is it not possible for this company to go bust like The Gold Label? How are they different from Gold Label in any way? Please try to find this out independently, instead of everything listening to whatever they tell you. How to verify whatever info they tell you? Any third party source can verify?

What can go wrong? Well, one company The Gold Label has already gone down.

When Gold price plunge by 30% or more, hope they can pay you back your higher purchase price (higher than market by 20% to 2550 plus "interest" (18% to 24% per year). Well, you would say no problem, becos your friend claimed they hedged their gold position.

Do they hedge their position in Gold? Any evidence? How much is cost of hedging Gold, do you know? Or you just blindly invest without knowing all these things?

Please do NOT quote me on all these things. Find out all these information yourself. I hope seminar graduates do NOT quote any company name in ANY discussion in the forum, becos you're unfairly subjecting me the administrator of the forum to unwarranted risks.

We can mention company that have already gone into trouble. eg. The Gold Label for Gold and Profitable Plots for Land though.

Anyone contravening such rules might be banned from the forum forever.

Hi Dennis,

Yes I do fear that this XXX company might end up same fate as Gold Label. We do not have access to their company cashflow statement, so whether they are reaping good profit or not I have no idea.

You did point out many question to ask myself which I haven thought of yet, and least not that in-depth enough, thanks for the advise. I will try to find out more information to and see if they can provide answers.

You just pointed out NOT to quote any company name except those that have gone into trouble, I didn't realise that is violating the rule. I will bear in mind not to repeat that error again. Thanks.

Hi Winstonteo,
becos quoting any company name in this forum might lead to trouble for me, as the forum administrator. Try to put yourself in my shoes and you will understand my concerns.

I said it in general, not talking about you, but it is a general warning to everyone.

[winstonteo]

In all investments as the name implies, there will be risk and also reward.
As long as you know them all it is your decision.

Example if a person is a risk taker and only knows how to put money in the bank and alternative buy the 4-D, indeed he has very little option.
It is his money and his right how to invest. No one can say a thing.

As we all have learnt, is the up side double than the downside and
what if I am wrong will I still be ok?

Same for this gold investment. If you are really going into it, I will suggest you to take out all your capital once you recover them and put the profit in it. This is called profit taking (also capital preservation)

Tie Ge

Hi Tie Ge,

The risk/reward ratio I found out works this way.

When you first purchase the Bullion Bar from this company, you lose 15 to 25% by paying at their inflated price, at the same time the company promises to pay 2% every month for their 3 monthly renewal.

So your risk is reduced monthly by 2% as the interest/reward is given to you. So by the time you have hold the Gold for 1 year, your risk will be zero.. From 12th months onward, that's where you started seeing profit. This is my analysis of the trade.

If you hold on the Gold, say probably 2 years, you will break even on the first years (inflated price you paid), you have earn a 24% return.

The downside is you must be in the trade for more than 1-2 years, otherwise the risk will be 15 to 25%. (Provided the price stays constant or if it goes up slowly). so even the company goes bust, you are safe.

Btw, that's excluding the top up value you require to pay if the Gold price goes up, say $70 to $71/g, meaning we need to top up $100 for every 100g we purchases, decreasing your profit to only $40, based on the 2% return. Hope my analysis is correct.

So back to your question, if i am wrong, but 2 years in the trade, I am probably in the safe zone, otherwise.. You lose that 15 to 25% calculated risk. The people who are in this Gold trading business, did told me, you can take out the cash (profit taking aka capital reservation) after 1-2 years, your returns will be quite large based on 24% return rate.

But as what Dennis did mention, we shouldnt just hear what the people tells us but find out more on ourselves, which I do agree. Thanks for the advise and sharing.